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Author Topic: Interesting thoughts on oil type. (41 messages, Page 1 of 3)
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V steel rider

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Posted: Mar 3, 2012 12:20 PM  (Msg. 1 of 41)         

Haven't been on IA for a  while for which I apoligise.
Hve been having some interesting conversations with those in the know on Motorcycle Oils and types best suited to the Truder.
The general views would seem to indicate the following.
1) Always use oil suitable for wet clutch application
2) By virtue of the engines design and bearing/ machine part tolerances, a 20/50w multigrade is a better option than the 10/40w viscosity.
Very much treating the bike has a classic rather than a modern high performance machine.
3) Don't bother with fully synthetics. Semi is as far as you need to go.
I am being told the above rules apply because the 1400 Truder is a big bore slow revving thumper, and not a multi piston high revver.
Following the above apparently offers better engine protection, less rattles and therefore a smoother runner. Less blow by, and oil burn/consumption between services. And better wet clutch traction.

What do you reckon fellas, came from 2 independant oil experts who give the same advise to dare I say, Harley owners.    


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Posted: Mar 3, 2012 01:51 PM  (Msg. 2 of 41)         

oil is a hard topic for some.....


i agree....20w50 semi


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Posted: Mar 3, 2012 01:59 PM  (Msg. 3 of 41)         

Rotella 10W40.


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Posted: Mar 3, 2012 02:55 PM  (Msg. 4 of 41)         

Quote:
sekri wrote:
Rotella 10W40.



Rotella T6 Fully synthetic 10W40


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Posted: Mar 3, 2012 03:12 PM  (Msg. 5 of 41)         

I use 3  qts of 20W-50 Silkolene Motor cycle oil and then 2 qts of 20W-50 the Gold Seal Walmart Car oil.

Been using 20W-50 since she turned 60K miles, motor sounds better with the thicker oil, especially on them hot summer days. I did my clutch around the same mileage, if I run motor car oil than this the clutch slips.

Been doing this for 40K miles now,... no ill effects that I can see.


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Posted: Mar 3, 2012 03:43 PM  (Msg. 6 of 41)         

Screw the synthetic!  Just change the oil and filter every 3,000 miles.


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Posted: Mar 3, 2012 06:07 PM  (Msg. 7 of 41)         

It seems that the 20w 50w range or even the 10w 50w for start up in temps below minus 10c is the way to go. The thicker oil ie the higher number as per the 50 is better suited to our engines. The reason is down to engineering tolerances being not so tight as on high performance high revving performance machines. And also the load pressures being greater at the wear points in relation to more torque with these large piston low revving thumpers.
So the heavier grade oil doesnt squeeze out from between the wear surfaces under pressure so easily.
When explained it made sense. But having just changed a fairly fresh batch of 10w 40w for 20w 50w V twin specific mineral oil. I was surprised just how different the engine sounds.
The normal running noises have quitened right down. I am not talking about abnormal mechanical wear hear.
Just the normal sounds you would expect from a V twin.
Now I have a stock exhausts back on mechanical stuff becomes more audible.
I know put loud pipes back on. I saw that one coming.  
Seriously, the 20w 50w is well worth the effort Guys, give it a try, see what you think.


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Posted: Mar 3, 2012 07:21 PM  (Msg. 8 of 41)         

Quote:
Bug Dr wrote:

Rotella T6 Fully synthetic 10W40


rotella T6 fully synthetic is 5W40
and I like it better then high buck mobil 1 synthetic 20W50


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Posted: Mar 3, 2012 07:50 PM  (Msg. 9 of 41)         

Full text from the owner's manual on Suzuki's recommendations...

"Suzuki recommends the use of SUZUKI PERFORMANCE 4 MOTOR OIL or an oil which is rated SF or SG under the API service classification.  The recommended viscosity is SAE 10W-40.  If an SAE 10W-40 oil is not available, select an alternative according to the following chart."

The chart translated to a text format...
14°F to 104°F+ (-10°C to 40°C+)  =  20W-50
5°F to 104°F+ (-15°C to 40°C+)  =  15W-40 or 15W-50
-4°F to 104°F+ (-20°C to 40°C+)  =  10W-40 or 10W-50
-4°F to 86°F (-20°C to 30°C)  =  10W-30

So Suzuki says you can use the 20W-50 viscosity, although they generally recommend 10W-40 as default.  I'm in the same group as a few others and am running outside of the recommendations with 5W-40, using the Rotella T6 synthetic that is available at Walmart.  No complaints.

Bug Dr, you sure it was 10W-40?  I thought I only saw it in 5W-40 the last time I bought the T6.

A link I keep around for people that really want to get in depth on oil discussions is this one:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=cfrm
The used oil analysis forums are interesting to look at.

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Posted: Mar 3, 2012 11:43 PM  (Msg. 10 of 41)         

The issue also depends upon cost and oil change interval.

I would like to change my oil just Once A Year - so the longer wearing syn is better - because I put way more than 3k miles on my bike each year.  Some years I just have to change oil mid-year at 6k miles because it is another 6k miles back home.

I am one cheap SOB so the gallon jug of Rotella is priced right.  The type for a wet clutch just happens to be 10w-40 and that is close enough for me.

Rotella T6 is 10w40 full synthetic.  It last twice as long and is cheaper per quart.



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Posted: Mar 4, 2012 12:02 AM  (Msg. 11 of 41)         

I change out the oil before each riding season regardless of the mileage. I have beem running Rotella syn 5/40 for three seasons now. No problems at all. But, even though I have a new filter and new Rotella T6 sitting in the shop ready to go in, I may switch out to dino and see if the upper clatter goes away. I never noticed it before I went syn.



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Posted: Mar 4, 2012 12:38 AM  (Msg. 12 of 41)         

Quote:
Azazeel wrote:

rotella T6 fully synthetic is 5W40
and I like it better then high buck mobil 1 synthetic 20W50


Yup... my bad...


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Posted: Mar 4, 2012 03:46 AM  (Msg. 13 of 41)         

Good discussion, many thanks for the input guys. Looks like you wont go far wrong either way. As said Suzuki give the 20w 50w mention in there charts down to -10 in centigrade all the way up to +40c.
All I can say is that the normal top end wurring and whining have all but gone since I swapped to the thicker grade. Its always debatable as to who knows best.
The oil manufacturer vs the manufacturer of the motorcycle.
You have to ask why the V twin specific oils are out there.
Certainly regular oil changes are the way to go regardless of the oils weight
40 or 50.   


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Posted: Mar 4, 2012 04:02 AM  (Msg. 14 of 41)         

i use Castrol Power 1 Racing 4T 10W-50 fully synthetic

change oil and filter ones a year regardles of how manny km
it works for me


peter

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Posted: Mar 4, 2012 09:57 PM  (Msg. 15 of 41)         

I tried 20-50 once.  Never again.  The lifters clattered until it was well warmed up and the clutch would drag causing a crunch noise when putting it in gear from neutral.  
Went back to the 10-40 and both problem went away.

I think the 20-50 is just too thick to properly penetrate the small areas of things like the lifters and it is too thick to allow proper clutch release.


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Posted: Mar 5, 2012 09:16 AM  (Msg. 16 of 41)         

The 1400 is far from a slow-revving "thumper". The older Harley motors were the slow turners with tolerences calling for 20-50. Two different engines.

The automotive world in an effort to raise mpg on a CAFE basis went to lighter oils to lessen loss thru friction. In doing so it re-learned the theory of boundary layering. The "thinner" oils lube better. Actually, the numbers refer to the viscosity indexers, not the lubrication abilities.


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Posted: Mar 5, 2012 09:38 AM  (Msg. 17 of 41)         

All interesting points of view guys,
The Truder is deffo a slow revver in the scheme of things. Most V twin big bores are.
She is primarily air cooled, with a token, not so big oil cooler up front. The case for 20w 50w also mentioned the hotter engine temps that need to be considered, especially on the rear cylinder.
I have found the 50w upper rating has made a noticable difference in the wirr and chatter associated with normal V Twin noises. Much more quite now.
Don't think its going to make a world of difference either way TBH.
Its another one of those what floats your boat situations.
As long as the boats captain isn't Italian.    


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Posted: Mar 5, 2012 10:00 PM  (Msg. 18 of 41)         

Sorry...I was thinking of the VS800. The 1960 FLH and the VS1400 are pretty close in RPM at 60 MPH (about 2850) and do develop full power at similar RPM.


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Posted: Mar 6, 2012 01:50 AM  (Msg. 19 of 41)         

so what's the best choice? :D
I used a 10w40 synth (thinking it was the right way) but I have no othere references..


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Posted: Mar 6, 2012 08:31 AM  (Msg. 20 of 41)         

Quote:
BABIS wrote:
so what's the best choice? :D
I used a 10w40 synth (thinking it was the right way) but I have no othere references..


Not so much a best choice as preferred choice. If your running in mild to hot climates I would go 20w/50w. My experience to date as been all good. Smooth and quiter. Plus I like the thought of my oil not thinning out to much on hot days with an air cooled machine. The so called half hearted attempt at oil cooling the rear is just that really half and half.

10w/40w if your running alongside polar bears or penguins.
But then there is a 10w/50w on the market which should help those concerned with cold oil running free during start up. And not thinning to much when she is running warm.

There is not a wrong way with this which is the main point. The debate will no doubt come up many times.  

 
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