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DrAlloway
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Posts: 2542
Joined: Dec 2007
From: Washington, DC
Bike: VS1400
NEIAR - Aug 08
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Posted: Feb 25, 2008 11:13 AM (Msg. 1 of 22)
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I am adding lights front and rear; power outlets for heated clothing; etc and need to conserve watts. So I am looking at LEDs to replace my turn signals. Each turn signal takes 21 watts when flashing and even the 48 superbright LED cluster only takes 1.2 watts at max.
You can add auxiliary LEDs to existing turn signals without a Load Equalizer and they will flash just fine. However, if you replace the turn signals with LEDs you need to add a Load Equalizer. This is because the stock Turn Signal Flasher Relay is thermal. It gets hot with 21 watts of juice flowing through and turns itself off; then it cools off and turns itself back on; and so on 84 times a minute. With LEDs the wattage is so low that the thermal Flasher Relay never heats up. The "Motorcycle Authorities" (not being good DS renegades) sell you a Load Equalizer to "fix" this problem -- nothing more than a Big Resistor to suck up enough juice to heat up the thermal Flasher Relay. A major waste of wattage AND exactly the opposite of why install LEDs in the first place to save juice.
So I have found Flasher Relays that are Electronic (as versus thermal) that simply count milliseconds and flash 84 times a minute. So all I have to do is replace the stock Thermal with Electronic and all my problems are solved -- replacement LEDs that flash with low power consumption.
Which brings me, finally, to my question. Where the hell is the Turn Signal Relay???
Both the Service Manual and Clymer wiring diagrams show it to be a separate part (I think). So where is the little bugger?? So I can rip it out and replace it.
See thread in Events / Rides for schedule of
US 50 Coast-to-Coast IA Rides and Rallies for June 2010
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CWolf
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Posts: 106
Joined: Sep 2007
From: portland, OR
Bike: C50
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Posted: Feb 25, 2008 12:51 PM (Msg. 2 of 22)
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I added extra lights to the back. One set are brake lights, that where regular type bulbs with a thermal flasher. In the first 15 minutes one of the bulbs burned out and the only replacements available are from J C Whitney.
I replace the bulbs with LEDs and ordered a LED flasher at the same time. Well if you hook the LED flasher backwards (DOH) it will burn them out.
I went to auto zone and bought a electronic flasher and was told by them that it would work for LEDS.
It don't
Maybe with your system with more LEDs than I have it may work OK
but then again I will be ordering another LED flasher from SuperbrightLEDs
I know this don't answer your question on flasher location but I thought I would warn you that the electronic flasher may not do the job
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bigal331
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From: Ocean Springs, MS
Bike: VS1400
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Posted: Feb 25, 2008 01:05 PM (Msg. 3 of 22)
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If I am thinking right the flasher is under your seat. The passanger seat to be exact. Under the seat should be a rubber cover that will be covering the flasher relay. At least that is where it is on my '93.
I have LEDs front and rear and I am still using the stock flasher. I do however have one load equalizer. They flash a little faster than stock with less load on the system. If you find a flasher that will work without a equalizer let us know.
'93 1400, M-S Big Shot, ME880's, Jardine F-Cs, Corbin D-T, Custom 2' SS Pipes, no baffs, Stage 3 jets.
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CWolf
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Posts: 106
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From: portland, OR
Bike: C50
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Posted: Feb 25, 2008 01:34 PM (Msg. 4 of 22)
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my Haynes says the turn signal relay is under the right side cover on all models (85-06) except the Marauder On the Marauder its under the left side cover.
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danno
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From: Back in Irving, TX
Bike: VS1400
Who are these people and why are they following me
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Posted: Feb 25, 2008 02:01 PM (Msg. 5 of 22)
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Quote:CWolf wrote:
my Haynes says the turn signal relay is under the right side cover on all models (85-06) except the Marauder On the Marauder its under the left side cover.
That manual either does not include the VS1400, or it's flatout wrong.
On the 1400, it's under the passenger seat under the rubber cover. It's on the driver's left side of the cluster.
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CWolf
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Posts: 106
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From: portland, OR
Bike: C50
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Posted: Feb 25, 2008 02:07 PM (Msg. 6 of 22)
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Quote:danno wrote:
That manual either does not include the VS1400, or it's flatout wrong.
On the 1400, it's under the passenger seat under the rubber cover. It's on the driver's left side of the cluster.
Right you are
after a second look it only covers the 700, 750 and 800 models
SORRY 
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DrAlloway
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From: Washington, DC
Bike: VS1400
NEIAR - Aug 08
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Posted: Mar 21, 2008 01:51 AM (Msg. 7 of 22)
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OK, so the flasher relay is definitely under the passenger seat.
I replaced the front turn signals with Right Angle 1157 amber LEDs ($9.95 from SuperBrightLEDs.com in red or amber for 1156 or 1157) but kept the rear turn signals stock 1156 incandescent bulbs. The stock flasher relay still works but it flashers faster, not super-fast, so I have decided it is good enough.
I also tried LEDs in all 4 turn signals with the stock flasher -- it does not work at all.
I also tried an Electronic flasher (from a truck parts store) -- it does work better for 2 LEDs but did not work for 4 LEDs either.
See thread in Events / Rides for schedule of
US 50 Coast-to-Coast IA Rides and Rallies for June 2010
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High Desert Intruder
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From: Torrance, CA
Bike: LC1500
Goin' for a Ride!
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Posted: Mar 21, 2008 02:05 AM (Msg. 8 of 22)
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In regards to the flasher relay.....I know Area51 and a few others have used standard automotive flasher relays so that they dont have this fast flash that a bike is suppose to have to signal a burned out bulb.
I think they got them at either a Pep boys or other local autoparts store. They just took the one off the bike so that they could find one that matched with the same layout.
The main thing to keep in mind is that they will no longer flash quickly to indicate a bulb is out...so a walk around before you ride to determine that all your bulbs are working is now a lot more important. But yeah I have seen several members with 800's do this much for the same reason.
Like you said a load equalizer does the trick, but it does as it's name says....it puts a load on that circuit that you wanted not to have....so to me it just seems like you lost what you thought you gained by going with LED's and then tossed a load equalizer into the circuit.
Click on Engine for Star Washer Fix 
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Chubby
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From: Ocala, FL
Bike: VS800
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Posted: Mar 21, 2008 10:00 AM (Msg. 9 of 22)
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Quote:DrAlloway wrote:
OK, so the flasher relay is definitely under the passenger seat.
I replaced the front turn signals with Right Angle 1157 amber LEDs ($9.95 from SuperBrightLEDs.com in red or amber for 1156 or 1157) but kept the rear turn signals stock 1156 incandescent bulbs. The stock flasher relay still works but it flashers faster, not super-fast, so I have decided it is good enough.
I also tried LEDs in all 4 turn signals with the stock flasher -- it does not work at all.
I also tried an Electronic flasher (from a truck parts store) -- it does work better for 2 LEDs but did not work for 4 LEDs either.
Most of the automotive electronic flashers require 1 - 2 amps load to function properly. They will usually work fine if you have at least one 1156/1157 bulb in the circuit. If you have all LED turnsignals, you dont have but enough load for the standard electronic flasher to work.
You will need a LED flasher unit (available from SuperBright LED's) that will work with a few milliamps load.  You could also use the load equalizer unit, but like HDI said, that kinda defeats part of the gain from the LED's Edited by Chubby on Mar 21, 2008 at 10:08 AM
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DrAlloway
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Posts: 2542
Joined: Dec 2007
From: Washington, DC
Bike: VS1400
NEIAR - Aug 08
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Posted: Mar 22, 2008 01:24 AM (Msg. 10 of 22)
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Sad to say I also tried an electronic flasher from SuperBrightLEDs.com and it didn' work either. Same results as truck electronic flasher: works with front LEDs and rear stock but not all 4 as LEDs.
$12.95 Flasher model: CF12ANL-01
They sell several other flasher models, which I have not tried. So if anybody finds one that works, please let all of us know.
See thread in Events / Rides for schedule of
US 50 Coast-to-Coast IA Rides and Rallies for June 2010
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Chubby
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Posts: 80
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From: Ocala, FL
Bike: VS800
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Posted: Mar 22, 2008 12:15 PM (Msg. 11 of 22)
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Quote:DrAlloway wrote:
Sad to say I also tried an electronic flasher from SuperBrightLEDs.com and it didn' work either. Same results as truck electronic flasher: works with front LEDs and rear stock but not all 4 as LEDs.
$12.95 Flasher model: CF12ANL-01
They sell several other flasher models, which I have not tried. So if anybody finds one that works, please let all of us know.
I have the same flasher ( CF12ANL-01) on my bike with all 4 LED turnsignals and it works fine . Since my bike only has one turnsignal indicator light on the speedo, I did install a diode to prevent backfeeding. 
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DrAlloway
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Posts: 2542
Joined: Dec 2007
From: Washington, DC
Bike: VS1400
NEIAR - Aug 08
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Posted: Mar 22, 2008 05:15 PM (Msg. 12 of 22)
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Whoa there, not so fast. You may be the genius we all have been searching for.
Your CF12ANL-01 worked and mine did not.
First, do you have a load equalizer installed?
Second, all vs1400 have only one turn signal indicator, so what diode?
Where did you buy it and how much?
Where did you install it?
BTW: which LEDs for turn signals? Perhaps you have 40 LEDs each and mine only have 30 LEDs each and so your extra LEDs were enough to get the Amps up high enough to make the flasher work?
See thread in Events / Rides for schedule of
US 50 Coast-to-Coast IA Rides and Rallies for June 2010
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Chubby
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Posts: 80
Joined: Dec 2007
From: Ocala, FL
Bike: VS800
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Posted: Mar 22, 2008 08:01 PM (Msg. 13 of 22)
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Quote:DrAlloway wrote:
Whoa there, not so fast. You may be the genius we all have been searching for.
Your CF12ANL-01 worked and mine did not.
First, do you have a load equalizer installed?
Second, all vs1400 have only one turn signal indicator, so what diode?
Where did you buy it and how much?
Where did you install it?
BTW: which LEDs for turn signals? Perhaps you have 40 LEDs each and mine only have 30 LEDs each and so your extra LEDs were enough to get the Amps up high enough to make the flasher work?
I've tried to respond to this earlier but my posts seem to get lost in cyberspace. 
First, Thanks but I'm no genius. I prove that quite often. 
I do not have a load equalizer installed.
The diode unit is used to prevent current backflow through the turnsignal indicator bulb. It's kinda like an electrical check valve. The current backfeed is not a problem with incandescent bulbs but is a problem with low current draw LED's. It usually causes all four turnsignals to flash when the turnsignal switch is activated in either direction. You can get the diode assembly from most aftermarket suppliers. I think I got a Kuryakyn unit from Dennis Kirk for less than $10. I installed my diode in the indicator light wiring inside the speedo housing. This is probalby unrelated to your flasher not working but you will probably have to address the diode installation if you want to run all 4 turnsignals as LED.
I also don't think my choice of LED's is the issue. I have the same Superbright right angle LED's for the front as you. My rear signals are Kuryakyn LED small silver bullets. Neither are large clusters (over 30).
You may just have a defective flasher unit. It's also possible that the wiring is reversed on the flasher. They are sensitive to this and easily toasted. From memory, the "B" spade gets hooked to the battery side (orange/green on the 800) and the "L" spade gets hooked to the load side (sky blue on the 800).
After my initial installation of LED's, I have since added a run/turn/brake controller for the rear LED's and everything still works fine.
Good Luck 
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DrAlloway
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Posts: 2542
Joined: Dec 2007
From: Washington, DC
Bike: VS1400
NEIAR - Aug 08
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Posted: Mar 22, 2008 11:54 PM (Msg. 14 of 22)
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Thanks Chubby.
We may be making real progress here. In one of the many combinations I tried, all 4 LEDs flashed with both turn signals -- just as you said. So not having this diode may be my problem.
I went on Dennis Kirk and found the K diode kit you mentioned. It is $6.95 plus S&H.
Being a cheap s.o.b. I know I can buy diodes at Radio Shack for a buck. Could you post the Installation Instructions that came with your diode kit??
thanks, Bob
See thread in Events / Rides for schedule of
US 50 Coast-to-Coast IA Rides and Rallies for June 2010
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CWolf
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Posts: 106
Joined: Sep 2007
From: portland, OR
Bike: C50
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Posted: Mar 23, 2008 12:05 AM (Msg. 15 of 22)
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I did a bench test run on two LED lights and the flasher I got from Suoerbright and it worked fine. I believe when I did the install I got in a hurry and wired the flasher back asswards and fried the little guy.
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Critter
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Joined: Jan 2003
From: Oklahoma City, OK
Bike: VS1400
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Posted: Mar 23, 2008 08:08 AM (Msg. 16 of 22)
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Whenever I add or change any electrical on my motorcycles I always edit the wiring diagram in the manual or create notes for reference in case I have problems later and need to remember what I did. I added diodes to my bike several years ago when a friend of mine noticed at night that the opposite side of my turn signals flashed slightly. Below is a link to the diagram I made of the changes I did.
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm110/CritterBuddy/turn-indicator-mod.jpg
The stock wiring has a wire coming from each side of your turn signals to the indicator bulb. My notes show these wires as black and green for the VS1400. Please check your wiring diagram as I don't know if this is the same for all models or the VS800, etc. When you turn on your left turn signal the indicator bulb actually grounds itself through the right turn signal and vise versa thus creating the "flasher" effect. I'm sure with LEDs and their lower wattage this effect would be quite pronounced.
I clipped each wire, soldered a diode on each wire coming from the turn indicators, connected the diodes together on the opposite side, connected one wire from the indicator bulb to the diodes, and then grounded the other wire from the indicator bulb.
Also, I soldered each connection and used heat shrink tubing on all connections to prevent any electrical shorting in the future.
U.S. Shrine Hospital Info: 800-237-5055 Canada Shrine Hospital Info: 800-361-7256 Oklahoma Hospital, Shrine, or Circus Info: stanchap@cox.net
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Chubby
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Posts: 80
Joined: Dec 2007
From: Ocala, FL
Bike: VS800
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Posted: Mar 23, 2008 10:11 AM (Msg. 17 of 22)
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Quote:DrAlloway wrote:
Thanks Chubby.
Being a cheap s.o.b. I know I can buy diodes at Radio Shack for a buck. Could you post the Installation Instructions that came with your diode kit??
thanks, Bob
My diode installation is the same as that posted by Critter. You cut both wires going to the indicator light. Take one wire from the bulb side (it doesn't matter which one) and connect it to ground. With the remaining wire, use Critter's diagram to install the diodes. You should be good to go! 
BTW, nice diagram Critter
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DrAlloway
Gender:
Posts: 2542
Joined: Dec 2007
From: Washington, DC
Bike: VS1400
NEIAR - Aug 08
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Posted: Mar 23, 2008 05:34 PM (Msg. 18 of 22)
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I agree, nice wiring diagram, I have been looking for software for just this purpose -- what are you using and where did you get it??
See thread in Events / Rides for schedule of
US 50 Coast-to-Coast IA Rides and Rallies for June 2010
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Critter
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Posts: 178
Joined: Jan 2003
From: Oklahoma City, OK
Bike: VS1400
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Posted: Mar 24, 2008 05:21 AM (Msg. 19 of 22)
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Sorry guys, that diagram was created with Photoshop doing cut and paste. The free software I've seen doesn't work very well. Maybe someone will jump in here with a suggestion we can all use.
U.S. Shrine Hospital Info: 800-237-5055 Canada Shrine Hospital Info: 800-361-7256 Oklahoma Hospital, Shrine, or Circus Info: stanchap@cox.net
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bigdoc59
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Posts: 24
Joined: Apr 2006
From: Fernandina Beach, FL
Bike: S83
Pressure makes diamonds
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Posted: Mar 24, 2008 08:37 PM (Msg. 20 of 22)
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I replaced all of my turn sig with led bullets. Red in back, amber in front. I ordered a Badlands control module from Bike bandit. It makes the rear bullets tail lights, brake lights and turn signals. The installation was kinda involved, but I now have three times the running/brake light in the rear. I think it was $125.00.
Bigdoc
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